| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3] > | Proofread a translation done with googletranslator?! Tópico cartaz: Alessandra Vanni
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Amy Duncan (X) 
Brasil
Local time: 02:03
português para inglês
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| Google Translate surprised me | Aug 7, 2009 |
I had never used any translating programs, so just for fun I thought I'd send a paragraph or two of a document I was working on to Google Translate to see how bad it was. Well, maybe it was the type of text I was working on, I'm not sure, but the results really weren't so bad! Of course there were mistakes, but I was surprised at how accurate a lot of it was.
If I were you, I'd try to get a copy of the text in the original language for comparison and then go for it.
| | | | Patricia Will
Austrália
Local time: 13:03
Membro (2004)
alemão para inglês
| http://www.proz.com/forum/proofreading_editing_reviewing/142139-proofread_a_translation_done_with_go | Aug 7, 2009 |
You are right, if you don't do it someone else will, but don't you want to be a little bit more choosy about what you do. Personally, I just wouldn't do it. I would say that the quality is so bad it needs re-translating and I would charge accordingly. We have to educate our customers that it is just not worth doing it the cheap way. I never do proofreading or editing because it ends up being too much work for very little money. Of course it is easier for me to opt out of this kind of job be... See more You are right, if you don't do it someone else will, but don't you want to be a little bit more choosy about what you do. Personally, I just wouldn't do it. I would say that the quality is so bad it needs re-translating and I would charge accordingly. We have to educate our customers that it is just not worth doing it the cheap way. I never do proofreading or editing because it ends up being too much work for very little money. Of course it is easier for me to opt out of this kind of job because I am experienced (25 years) and specialised (technical), but I would urge you all to refuse to sort out this kind of mess and persuade the customer that it is a better idea to have a proper translation done by a professional translator in the first place.
Best regards
Patricia Will ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It doesn't matter who (or what) did the translation | Aug 7, 2009 |
I am not sure why an MT is different from a human translation when it comes to making a decision about editing/proofing it. To me, it is simple: I look at the translation, and if it is up to a level that I am comfortable editing, I quote for the editing, based on my hourly fee, and my estimate for the time it would take. I can estimate the time based on my experience with various types of texts translated at various quality levels.
If it is not up to that minimum level I am willing ... See more I am not sure why an MT is different from a human translation when it comes to making a decision about editing/proofing it. To me, it is simple: I look at the translation, and if it is up to a level that I am comfortable editing, I quote for the editing, based on my hourly fee, and my estimate for the time it would take. I can estimate the time based on my experience with various types of texts translated at various quality levels.
If it is not up to that minimum level I am willing to edit, that means I need to retranslate it from scratch. I tell the client what would be my price for the complete translation.
Then, it is up to the client whether they accept it, or not.
I was unfortunate a few times to see actual human translations that were not better than an MT. So, what I am saying is that from the decision making point of view, I don't care who or what did the translation. It is either acceptable, or not.
Key point: I never take on an editing/proofing task without seeing the translation or at least a representative sample of it.
Katalin ▲ Collapse
| | | | | text translated by MT means translation from scratch | Aug 8, 2009 |
Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
Key point: I never take on an editing/proofing task without seeing the translation or at least a representative sample of it.
Absolutely! But I never agree to 'a representative sample of it': I need to see the whole text I'm supposed to work on. And in most cases 'proofreading' of a text translated by MT means translation from scratch...
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| It'd be more expensive for them | Aug 8, 2009 |
Milos Prudek wrote:
Should i provide a quote for proofreading and then re-translate completely the whole text or just correct the most naive mistakes?
Neither. Tell them that translation from scratch is better for them because editing google machine translation would be more expensive for them. Offer translating from scratch.
I already know that if i do not accept the job someone else will do it!
This is true for even the worst jobs and smallest fees. Someone else will always do it.
Milos is absolutely right. You'd need to read what's wrong, realize that it's beyond repair and translated it again. Or you can just translate it from scratch and skip the first two steps. And since you'd be charging by the hour, more steps, more money.
The same applies to non-professional translations. I just refuse to proofread/edit/review them for the same reason. They're also easy to spot. It doesn't matter that the some of the segments are fine. If there are too many mistakes, you just waste too much time trying to make it out.
| | | | Gina W
Estados Unidos
Local time: 00:03
Membro (2003)
francês para inglês
| I would refuse the job | Aug 9, 2009 |
Having someone "edit" a machine translation is like a cheap way to get a quality translation. It isn't right so it shouls be refused. If you choose to accept, you should charge a rate for translation, not editing.
JMO.
| | | | Neil Coffey
Reino Unido
Local time: 05:03
francês para inglês
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| Can you make it work for you? | Aug 9, 2009 |
Some developers of MT systems-- including Google (see a presentation by Peter Norvig on the subject)-- are quite up-front about the idea that the standard that they're aiming for is machine translations that are good enough to be quickly post-edited by human transators/editors to iron out the "occasional disfluency".
What this probably means is that this won't be your last enquiry about post-editing machine translations, and the demand will probably increase, not decrease.
... See more Some developers of MT systems-- including Google (see a presentation by Peter Norvig on the subject)-- are quite up-front about the idea that the standard that they're aiming for is machine translations that are good enough to be quickly post-edited by human transators/editors to iron out the "occasional disfluency".
What this probably means is that this won't be your last enquiry about post-editing machine translations, and the demand will probably increase, not decrease.
Developers of MT systems are also fairly up-front about the idea that MT serves translation needs where having a text "properly" translated wouldn't be cost-effective. Vendors may exaggerate the capabilities of their systems a bit, but none AFAIK is saying "translates just as well as an experienced, skilled human translator". Some users of MT will falsely assume that the latter is true, but some will be more realistic: they know that they're going to get a mediocre translation, but they've decided that a cheap, mediocre translation is better than no translation at all.
So a question you might want to ask is: can you make it work for you? If your clients are happy that the result will be mediocre, and it doesn't take you much time to correct the translation to a level that's not good per se, but good enough for the client, then maybe it's worthwhile for you. As I say, if you can make it work, this probably won't be the first enquiry you get.
On the other hand, if you've got enough "proper" translation work coming in and what you thrive on is that creative decision-making and problem-solving involved in human translation, then you probably want to just turn it down. I'm actually playing devil's advocate a little, because personally I practically never agree to work with MT output either. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Claire Titchmarsh
Reino Unido
Local time: 05:03
Membro (2013)
italiano para inglês
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| I cannot believe what I have just read | Aug 11, 2009 |
Amy Duncan wrote:
I had never used any translating programs, so just for fun I thought I'd send a paragraph or two of a document I was working on to Google Translate to see how bad it was. Well, maybe it was the type of text I was working on, I'm not sure, but the results really weren't so bad! Of course there were mistakes, but I was surprised at how accurate a lot of it was.
If I were you, I'd try to get a copy of the text in the original language for comparison and then go for it.
Here's a sample of what Google Translate can do:
Source: A partire dal 1 gennaio 2009, l’informativa di settore deve essere redatta secondo quanto previsto dal principio “IFRS8 – Settori operativi” ed in conformità al paragrafo 16 del principio IAS 34 con riferimento al contenuto minimale da esporre nel bilancio intermedio.
As from 1 January 2009, the information field must be completed as planned in the beginning "IFRS8 - Industries operating in accordance with paragraph 16 of IAS 34 with minimal reference to the content to be displayed in the mid-term.
Nobody can take you seriously as a professional translator if you entertain the thought that a machine translation is worth revising, even for a split second. Any client trying to have you revise a machine translation is a) a complete novice to the industry, in which case he/she needs gently pointing in the right direction, or b) an unscrupulous opportunist, and who wants one of them for a client.
The world is chock-full of cyberjunk already. Let's not add to it.
*** End of rant ***
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| I just have to follow my own advice | Aug 12, 2009 |
I just found myself in a situation with is almost exactly the same as the one described by Alessandra. I was asked to give a quote on "checking whether the Russian translation was accurate". Well, it was such gibberish that no human could come up with. Not even a non-professional, not a even a person who doesn't know Russian well. It takes a computer to come up with a real gibberish.
So I followed the own advice given in my previous post.
We must do our best to educ... See more I just found myself in a situation with is almost exactly the same as the one described by Alessandra. I was asked to give a quote on "checking whether the Russian translation was accurate". Well, it was such gibberish that no human could come up with. Not even a non-professional, not a even a person who doesn't know Russian well. It takes a computer to come up with a real gibberish.
So I followed the own advice given in my previous post.
We must do our best to educate the clients, in spite of the fact that they resist education with all their might. Sadly, it is believed in the general public that translation is easy, and not only any bi-lingual can do it, but even a machine can do it. But if a client comes with an offer to "fix" machine translation to ten translators, and they all tell him that the machine translation is gibberish and he must hire a competent human to do it, maybe he'll get it.
At least it is my hope. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kroz Wado
Japão
Local time: 14:03
japonês para inglês
If you have the free time and are only just starting out then I'd say do it for the practice and experience. It's harsh but maybe they'll be impressed and offer you more stuff or be more willing to give you a better rate next time.
| | | | Susanna Garcia
Local time: 05:03
italiano para inglês
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In memoriam
Noe Tessmann wrote:
Hi,
don't waste a single second on it. Tell the client that it is a machine translation. If he did it by himself and send it to you for "proof-reading" - who knows - even worse. If the client paid for it he should arrange this with the translator in the first place.
If the client wants a decent translation ask for a longer deadline and apply your normal full rate.
I've come in a bit late here but a very well known agency tried this with me. I refused saying it was obviously MT and that it was actually a translating not a proofing job. Cheap trick or what.
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I have no time for people who come to translators with a google-translated text and basically expect to get a discount. We have heard of Google translate too, and if we thought that revising its output is better/faster/easier than translating from scratch, we would be doing that with every job.
I have never been approached with something like this myself (partly because it's pretty much impossible to get halfway decent MT done into Hungarian at this point). If I was, I would tell th... See more I have no time for people who come to translators with a google-translated text and basically expect to get a discount. We have heard of Google translate too, and if we thought that revising its output is better/faster/easier than translating from scratch, we would be doing that with every job.
I have never been approached with something like this myself (partly because it's pretty much impossible to get halfway decent MT done into Hungarian at this point). If I was, I would tell the client just that: if and when I want to revise google translate output, I'll plug in the source text myself, thank you. Translation rates are posted on the door, have a look on your way out. ▲ Collapse
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Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 05:03
alemão para inglês
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| For fools and masochists only | Sep 24, 2009 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
We have heard of Google translate too, and if we thought that revising its output is better/faster/easier than translating from scratch, we would be doing that with every job.
... Translation rates are posted on the door, have a look on your way out.
Very well put
I am amazed, really, that anyone who has aspirations of being taken seriously as a professional could consider post-editing MT trash. Leave that to the students, housespouses with no marketable skills and the hopelessly incompetent who shouldn't be trusted with real texts. And if the results are less than good or safe they will be what the task deserves, and real translators will still be available should a real translation be required.
[Edited at 2009-09-24 07:16 GMT]
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Kevin Lossner wrote:
FarkasAndras wrote:
We have heard of Google translate too, and if we thought that revising its output is better/faster/easier than translating from scratch, we would be doing that with every job.
... Translation rates are posted on the door, have a look on your way out.
Very well put
I am amazed, really, that anyone who has aspirations of being taken seriously as a professional could consider post-editing MT trash. Leave that to the students, housespouses with no marketable skills and the hopelessly incompetent who shouldn't be trusted with real texts. And if the results are less than good or safe they will be what the task deserves, and real translators will still be available should a real translation be required. [Edited at 2009-09-24 07:16 GMT]
| | | | | Masochist... | Sep 24, 2009 |
Is THE word..I am laughing out loud. So true.
Leave that to the students, housespouses with no marketable skills and the hopelessly incompetent who shouldn't be trusted with real texts.
Thats it!
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