| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2] | How to deal with an overenthusiastic reviewer? Tópico cartaz: Umang Dholabhai
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| Testing proofreaders | Jul 18, 2009 |
Rodna Ruskovska wrote:
It is a big problem that keeps reoccurring.
Agencies test translators, but agencies do not test proofreaders!!!
Many times the so called proofreader is another translator. Who guarantees that this person knows the language better than us? Maybe this persons language abilities are lower than ours...?
IMHO a proofreader/reviewer/editor should be a translator too. Their purpose in the game is to ensure that the final translation will be the best result obtainable from a team of translators, and not just one of them.
Otherwise it won't be a proofreader, just a critic. A theater critic is someone who considers him/herself capable of finding flaws in anyone else's successful performance, but that would turn out a thundering fiasco if they ever went on stage on their own.
Some translators often make a big fuss about exposing subtitle translation blunders they see on TV, but I wonder if they'd do any better receiving the same miserable rates and having the same impossible deadlines imposed to the translators who actually did it.
So the initial screening test for proofreaders should be the same used for translators. How far can they take a translation job single-handedly? The next test is practical, involving teamwork. Pair up two translators, one to translate, the other to review. Then reverse their roles. If there is no significant difference in the process either way, this will be a winning team!
If there is a difference in the process when roles are reversed, it either means that the team members' skills are not balanced, or that one of them won't admit that they are. It doesn't matter if one finds too much to fix in the other's work, or if one tries hard to fix too much in the other's work, this team won't work (pun intended), as there will be - justified or unjustified - competition going on instead of cooperation..
I often work with a translating/proofreading partner; an agency first introduced us to each other and turned us into a very effective team. I think that the best indicator that we are really cooperating is when she doesn't like some expression I used, and suggests 2-3 others which I don't like either, but one of her suggestions triggers yet another one on me, which is precisely what both of us were looking for. Sometimes the same process gets reversed, I don't like some expression she used... That's teamwork! Otherwise it's just quality control and rework.
| | | | Rodna Ruskovska 
Macedônia (FYROM)
Local time: 06:11
Membro
macedônio para inglês
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| Maybe we are already doing something by posting and sharing :):) | Jul 18, 2009 |
[quote]ScottishWildCat wrote:
I can agree with you that the term in itself is somewhat too strong to derogatory, but I hardly ever read on these or other fora of a colleague who kept a completely cool mind when confronted to (in their eyes) unjustified, negative criticism.
Translators would imo be far better off and ready to accept that kind of subjective reviewing if clients were not so scarce in their subjective appraisal.
I guess this has to do with "modern management methods", in which the final decision is made on a seemingly arbitrary basis by a concealed and unreachable entity and where ira is more likely to be expressed than lauda : IOW, fear management - or managerial medieval mysteries. Or, and to stay with the professionalism we are all expected to show: reviewing based on subjective appreciations, which will never be questioned because the reviewer is the reviewer.
How this can fit with the above mentioned derogatory word would need an extensive research from the lowest to the highest point of the chain of command.
As the Japanese (?) say, there is always a crack for "sin" to come in, but I can understand that sin is linked to shame and that, for example, you cannot dismiss the CEO's son even if he drives the company to its ruin so obviously that even a blind man could see it.
Wonderfully put and exactly to the point.
[quote]Natalia wrote:
Excuse me, but I believe they will never come back. Calling names is not an argument... The only way to prove that you are right would be spending lots of time, explaining each and every issue and providing valid arguments why your version (and not the editor's one) is correct.
Of course I didn't call anyone names, although the reviewer was indeed an idiot both times. I analyzed each change made by the reviewer, commented on it, elaborated it and provided a back translation and submitted an independent assessment prepared by an external assessor. I am a professional! This is my life, this is my profession - a full-time freelance translator, I don't take it lightly. Do you know what the agency responded when I asked a while later whether they had read my feedback - "We're soooooooooooooo busy.....haven't looked at it yet".
To all posters - wonderful feedback dear colleagues!
Warm summer regards to you all,
Rodna
| | | | | I just had a frustrating experience | Jul 18, 2009 |
Yes, I think that sharing is useful.
Something happened to me yesterday. An agency I have worked with for a few years and never had any problems with before, asked a staff member (not a translator) to review my work. He made many stylistic changes, including ones where he introduced grammatical errors, changing the text because he thought "it sounded nicer" and sent the whole file back to me to review - four extra hours of work (or a free translation lesson?) that I cannot bill the... See more Yes, I think that sharing is useful.
Something happened to me yesterday. An agency I have worked with for a few years and never had any problems with before, asked a staff member (not a translator) to review my work. He made many stylistic changes, including ones where he introduced grammatical errors, changing the text because he thought "it sounded nicer" and sent the whole file back to me to review - four extra hours of work (or a free translation lesson?) that I cannot bill them for! Although the reviewer's English is not bad, it is certainly not his mother tongue and he made several mistakes. Wrong grammar, unnecessary use of articles, substituting correct terms for wrong ones, stringing sentences together that I had carefully split up, turning active voice back to the passive of the original, etc. etc. etc. I felt so frustrated I wanted to scream! And then he wanted me to see it and make sure his corrections were OK! Let me be clear- I appreciate having my work reviewed. It usually only improves the translation, and no-one is immune from making mistakes. I myself have reviewed other peoples' work before. But the reviewer should be competent and qualified to do the work. A mother tongue translator's work should be reviewed by another person whose mother tongue is the destination language and who limits himself to correcting mistakes, not making stylistic alterations. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 05:11
alemão para inglês
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| Primal scream therapy | Jul 18, 2009 |
Shera Lyn Parpia wrote:
... I wanted to scream!
You could, I suppose. Or just tell them quietly that it's their choice but you would appreciate not having your name associated with the mess. Further details to be charged by the hour. Don't waste your time on a free English lesson longer than two sentences. There will be no end to messes like that.
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jyuan_us
Estados Unidos
Local time: 00:11
Membro (2005)
inglês para chinês
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| I came across a rediculous case a year ago | Jul 18, 2009 |
Shera Lyn Parpia wrote:
Yes, I think that sharing is useful.
Something happened to me yesterday. An agency I have worked with for a few years and never had any problems with before, asked a staff member (not a translator) to review my work. He made many stylistic changes, including ones where he introduced grammatical errors, changing the text because he thought "it sounded nicer" and sent the whole file back to me to review - four extra hours of work (or a free translation lesson?) that I cannot bill them for! Although the reviewer's English is not bad, it is certainly not his mother tongue and he made several mistakes. Wrong grammar, unnecessary use of articles, substituting correct terms for wrong ones, stringing sentences together that I had carefully split up, turning active voice back to the passive of the original, etc. etc. etc. I felt so frustrated I wanted to scream! And then he wanted me to see it and make sure his corrections were OK! Let me be clear- I appreciate having my work reviewed. It usually only improves the translation, and no-one is immune from making mistakes. I myself have reviewed other peoples' work before. But the reviewer should be competent and qualified to do the work. A mother tongue translator's work should be reviewed by another person whose mother tongue is the destination language and who limits himself to correcting mistakes, not making stylistic alterations. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest!
The reviewer crossed out a lot of words on a long document I translated and gave very detailed comments, however he didn't propose an alternative for me to use for any of the words he crossed out. The PM told me to fix the translation following his comments.
I asked: How?
The PM told me that the reviewer's comments were very clear to her so I should follow his comments. Then I asked, what if he doesn't like it again even after I fix the file?
The PM didn't know how to answer my question.
Eventually I spent a lot of time doing Google search to prove that most of the terms he crossed out were orginally correct. I had to past Google Links under every one of his comments.
It turned out that 90% of his comments cannot be justified.
Most likely this review guy is from somewhere at another end of the world where Chinese is spoken.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 22:41 GMT]
| | | | Umang Dholabhai
Índia
Local time: 10:41
Membro
inglês para guzerate
+ ...
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO | This is what I did too.... | Jul 19, 2009 |
Don't waste your time on a free English lesson longer than two sentences. There will be no end to messes like that.
Perfect Kevin. Short sweet and effective.
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