Translation theories Thread poster: Suyash Suprabh
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Since the introduction of Nida's dynamic equivalence, which theories have proved to be most useful for freelance translators?
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 01:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Suyash Suprabh wrote:
Since the introduction of Nida's dynamic equivalence, which theories have proved to be most useful for freelance translators?
I don't know about "useful" -- your lecturer would have his own opinion about which theory is useful.
Modern-day translation students have access to a wealth of information sources that I did not have access to 25 years ago when I studied translation. These include Chat GPT, but also the existence of shadow libraries.
Here's what the bot says in answer to your request:
and I can confirm that e.g. Brown's book contains a lot of useful additional information about several of these. Also note how the opinion of Chat GPT may differ from that of other authors.
The bot says that polysystem theory was developed by Even-Zohar, but Keith Brown says in his encyclopedia of language and linguistics that Even-Zohar was but one of several linguists who were influenced by polysystem theory, so you have to decide who to believe. Chat GPT sometimes drops names of people who are associated with something as if they were the founders or originators of that thing.
When probed, the bot says that the big name attached to DTS is that of Gideon Toury, who supposedly published about this in 1995, but Brown doesn't make that link and instead mentions Mona Baker as the originator of corpus-based DTS. Indeed, Toury did make waves again in 1995 (after this hey-day in the 1980s), but I don't think it was with DTS. So, again, the bot sometimes mentions a name and a date of a significant person in the general field (translation theory) even if they weren't actually involved in the development of the subfield (corpus-based theory).
[Edited at 2023-08-22 08:25 GMT]
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 01:32
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Academical vs. practical | Aug 23, 2023 |
As usual, start a thread about rates and you'll get dozens of replies, try to discuss the essence of what we all do and you'll get barely a couple of posts...
Seems to apply to clients too (meaning mostly agencies). In almost a quarter century I've never had an agency asking which theory I use or suggesting that I use a specific one, other than adapting the register to the target audience.
For me it would be equivalence with hard deverbalization, by the way.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:32
French to English
I worked as a translator for 15 years before studying translation theory.
I had to study translation theory as a top-up to gain my master in translation. I was applying to get the diploma based on my professional experience, having worked for 15 years with barely any complaints about my work. To qualify for that, I submitted a 50-page document explaining how I learned to translate and just as many pages again showing examples of my work to prove that I did not need to take the vari... See more I worked as a translator for 15 years before studying translation theory.
I had to study translation theory as a top-up to gain my master in translation. I was applying to get the diploma based on my professional experience, having worked for 15 years with barely any complaints about my work. To qualify for that, I submitted a 50-page document explaining how I learned to translate and just as many pages again showing examples of my work to prove that I did not need to take the various compulsory courses.
Having learned on the job, I knew nothing of translation theory, so they made me take that course. During those classes, I learned absolutely nothing, except that my fellow students had no idea how the world worked. I think they benefitted more from my attendance than I did, because I often spoke up citing translation choices I had made, and why, to back up points the teacher was laboriously making.
I just tell my clients I go the extra distance to make my translations sound natural, which means they might not be able to recognise their text in my translation. I will deploy oodles of patience explaining what corresponds to what nuance in their text, or explaining why I zapped this or that minor detail, and why I used the word "smart" rather than "intelligent".
I'm a pragmatic perfectionist basically. If you want to turn that into a theory or a concept or an approach to translation, fine, but it's all just hot air as far as I'm concerned.
It's true that rates are discussed much more than actual translation here. I think this is because questions about terminology get sent to Kudoz. I would love to hash out thorny translation questions with my fellow FR-EN translators, it could replace the discussions I used to have with those who proofread my work when I was an in-house translator. But given the cut-throat atmosphere caused by people wanting points, I never go there any more. ▲ Collapse
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Daniel Frisano wrote:
As usual, start a thread about rates and you'll get dozens of replies, try to discuss the essence of what we all do and you'll get barely a couple of posts...
Seems to apply to clients too (meaning mostly agencies). In almost a quarter century I've never had an agency asking which theory I use or suggesting that I use a specific one, other than adapting the register to the target audience.
That'll be because theory is academic.
I guess I apply discretionary pragmatics with emotional and temporal constraints. Aka do what seems best given my mood and the time available.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 01:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
While it's true that theories are not useful for translators once they start working, theories are useful to know and be aware of as a translation student because it helps you think critically about what it is that you're doing (or going to be doing). It also helps you recognize mistakes and misconceptions that you, your colleagues and/or your clients might have about how translation works and how to translate correctly and appropriately.
Also, many theories in the field of transla... See more While it's true that theories are not useful for translators once they start working, theories are useful to know and be aware of as a translation student because it helps you think critically about what it is that you're doing (or going to be doing). It also helps you recognize mistakes and misconceptions that you, your colleagues and/or your clients might have about how translation works and how to translate correctly and appropriately.
Also, many theories in the field of translation are not strictly theories about translation. And many of them are not really theories, in fact -- they're more, like, descriptions of how things work. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 16:32
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Translation theory | Aug 24, 2023 |
Translators work with an implicit theory of translation, whether or not it is informed by a knowledge of formal translation theories.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:32
French to English
I'm really not sure that learning a lot of translation theory is at all necessary to be able to translate. I know a person who got a master's in translation like me, but in the UK. There were not enough students to have classes where they could practise translating texts, so they only learned theory. They could translate a text for their dissertation, but they could also write an essay propounding their own theories too. The person in question chose to do a translation, saying that otherwise, sh... See more I'm really not sure that learning a lot of translation theory is at all necessary to be able to translate. I know a person who got a master's in translation like me, but in the UK. There were not enough students to have classes where they could practise translating texts, so they only learned theory. They could translate a text for their dissertation, but they could also write an essay propounding their own theories too. The person in question chose to do a translation, saying that otherwise, she would not have translated a single document in order to get her master's in translation.
Her command of her source language was atrocious, she could barely speak it. As a native English speaker in a country where they are in short supply, she managed to find a job as a translator working for an agency. Her first year was a very steep learning curve and she only kept her job because she was the only native speaker to apply for it. ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:32
French to English
Michele Fauble wrote:
Translators work with an implicit theory of translation, whether or not it is informed by a knowledge of formal translation theories.
I try to reproduce the source text in my native target language, making sure not to leave anything out and not adding anything in, then I make it sound as natural as possible for those reading it. I'm really not sure that anything more is needed. I managed to do it without training, perhaps I just have a natural flair. I'm not sure that it's possible to be a good translator of complex texts without that natural flair.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 00:32
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Based on my understanding... | Aug 25, 2023 |
I don't know much about Eugene Nida, but the concept of "dynamic equivalence" is one of the most problematic and controversial areas in the field of translation theory.
Based on my understanding, Nida's dynamic equivalence is the same as "consistency" and, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think his theory can't be applied, for example, to more creative (literary) texts, because what is required of the translator here is creativity and translation usually requires transformations of a rathe... See more I don't know much about Eugene Nida, but the concept of "dynamic equivalence" is one of the most problematic and controversial areas in the field of translation theory.
Based on my understanding, Nida's dynamic equivalence is the same as "consistency" and, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think his theory can't be applied, for example, to more creative (literary) texts, because what is required of the translator here is creativity and translation usually requires transformations of a rather more radical kind. I'm not sure if I'm right...
For me, a translator is a creator and producer of messages and not a "decoder" of meanings. This idea has always accompanied me all the way until now.
As someone who attended a highly theoretical university course, I can say I agree with Kay when she says that she's not sure that learning a lot of translation theory is necessary to be able to translate.
Theory has only helped me to gain more scientific knowledge in various areas associated with translation.
Translation is an art that very few translators can master, and it's not translation theories that are going to make you able to translate. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 01:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
expressisverbis wrote:
I don't know much about Eugene Nida, but the concept of "dynamic equivalence" is one of the most problematic and controversial areas in the field of translation theory. Based on my understanding, Nida's dynamic equivalence is the same as "consistency"...
I've never encountered this understanding of Nida's theory. The way I understand it, Nida's theory was one of the first to promote moving way from word-for-word translations and towards sense-for-sense translations. To him, dynamic equivalence (also called functional equivalence) was kind of the opposite to the traditional view of formal equivalence. Munday's 2016 book gives an example of this in the translation of John 1:6 in the Bible from Greek to English:
- Greek transcribed: egeneto anthropos, apestalmenos para theou, onoma auto loannes
- Per-word scan: Happened man, sent from God, name to-him John
- Formal equivalent translation: There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John
- Dynamic equivalent translation: A man named John was sent by God.
Nida also writes and decoding (analysis) and encoding (restructuring), which incorporates elements of Chomsky. Chomsky's natural grammars are interesting to look at but I don't think I would ever actually apply them.
[Edited at 2023-08-25 15:43 GMT]
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 00:32
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
I've never encountered this understanding of Nida's theory. The way I understand it, Nida's theory was one of the first to promote moving way from word-for-word translations and towards sense-for-sense translations. To him, dynamic equivalence (also called functional equivalence) was kind of the opposite to the traditional view of formal equivalence. Munday's 2016 book gives an example of this in the translation of John 1:6 in the Bible from Greek to English:
- Greek transcribed: egeneto anthropos, apestalmenos para theou, onoma auto loannes
- Per-word scan: Happened man, sent from God, name to-him John
- Formal equivalent translation: There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John
- Dynamic equivalent translation: A man named John was sent by God.
Nida also writes and decoding (analysis) and encoding (restructuring), which incorporates elements of Chomsky. Chomsky's natural grammars are interesting to look at but I don't think I would ever actually apply them.
[Edited at 2023-08-25 15:43 GMT]
That is the general understanding of the concept.
My post was based on documents and papers written in my native language.
For example on this thesis, page 46:
Relatório de estágio Mariana da Costa Magalhães - Sigarra
Universidade do Porto
https://sigarra.up.pt › fep › pub_geral.show_file
Segundo Nida: • A consistência contextual tem prioridade sobre a consistência verbal;. • A equivalência dinâmica tem prioridade sobre a equivalência formal;. • ...
Usually, I avoid to write and to talk nonsense, but one thing I'm sure: I always try to get some additional information about a subject before I engage in a debate or discussion.
Of course, we can make mistakes in our (logical) reasoning, but in general I try to look up for sources that support my statements.
Ah... I forgot, I have a real name an it's more intelligible than verbis
Sandra
[Edited at 2023-08-25 20:23 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-08-25 20:25 GMT]
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