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Instituições Membros de Pleno Direito

Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

espírito de porco

English translation:

(a) mean-spirited person; antagonizer; busybody; negative Nelly/Nancy; troublemaker; instigator

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Feb 22, 2023 14:59
1 yr ago
27 viewers *
Portuguese term

espírito de porco

Portuguese to English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings Dictionary of Idioms
"Em tom de brincadeira, a atriz [Cláudia Raia] disse à coluna que sua personagem é um 'espírito de porco', porque vai atormentar a vida de Samantha..." (TV e Famosos, UOL).

"O discurso é idêntico ao da extrema-direita francesa, também racista e homofóbica. [Olavo de] Carvalho é um espírito de porco da filosofia, escondido sob o epíteto de 'expert do desmascaramento da pseudo-argumentação'" (Marilene Felinto, Folha UOL).

Espírito de porco
- Pessoa que costuma contrariar, interferir negativamente, criar problemas ou embaraços (em negócio, assunto, atividade etc.). (Aulete)
- Pessoa desagradável ou constrangedora (Carolina S. Moreira, "Expressões populares e gíria: qual é a diferença?")

Collins Dictionary suggests "wet blanket" for translation. However, as far as I know, "wet blanket" is best translated as "estraga-prazeres", "desmancha-prazeres" into PT-Br. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/portuguese-e...

wet blanket: a person who says or does something that stops other people enjoying themselves (Cambridge).

This discussion thread on English Experts has not reached a conclusion as to how to translate the term phrase: https://www.englishexperts.com.br/forum/como-dizer-espirito-...

A WordReference user suggested "evil-minded" as the closest translation: https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/eles-têm-espírito-de...

What do you guys suggest?

L2: EN-US
Register: idiomatic
Proposed translations (English)
4 mean-spirited
5 +2 was a right cow
3 +1 evil-minded
4 killljoy, stick-in-the-mud
3 brute (n.), obnoxious (adj.)
2 spoilsport / grinch

Discussion

ZT-Translations Feb 23, 2023:
@Oliver
Desculpe, não vi que mean-spirited já havia sido mencionado nos comentários!
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 23, 2023:
@Lesley I agree with you on "evil-minded". To me, it does not carry the connotation of "espírito de porco" either, even though the PT idiom stems from an "evil" notion that's attributed to pigs from a religious standpoint (see http://mpt.ninja/a9Ve ). As far as "party pooper", "killjoy" and "wet blanket", I haven't found a single source that corroborates any of them, except "wet blanket", which Collins translates as "espírito de porco" without citing any reference! In fact, I've been finding a good number of idiomatic mistranslations online. Most sources only give you a translation but nothing to back it up, such as bilingual examples and/or references. :-)
Lesley S, MA Feb 23, 2023:
Evil? in my mind, "evil-spirited/minded" implies evil intent and I don't think "espirito de porco" carries that connotation at all. "Espirito de Porco" is usually a party pooper (downer) who "kills everyone's joy" that is why I think "killjoy" describes "espirito de porco" to a tee but that is just my opinion.
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 23, 2023:
Clarification and final decision Thank you all for your suggestions.

First, I want to clarify that "espírito de porco" does not have the connotation of "wet blanket" (as translated by Collins Dictionary), meaning a person who spoils the fun of others. I haven't found a single definition/explanation in Portuguese that corroborates Collins' translation. Therefore, I have to discard "wet blanket" and other similar idioms. :-)

Now, as to the translation to be used, I have several, and they are all based on the research I have done, esp. the definitions found in various sources (including Aulete). Anyway, these are the translations that will be entered into the dictionary:

a mean-spirited person; an antagonizer; a busybody; a negative Nelly; a troublemaker; an instigator.

If you know of an idiomatic translation for "antagonizer" and "instigator", please feel free to suggest one. It has to be a noun phrase! :-)

1: "... the actress told the [this newspaper] column that her character is mean-spirited..."
2: "... [Olavo de] Carvalho is a mean spirit of philosophy..."

a mean spirit of + abstract noun:
"mean spirit of caring", "mean spirit of revenge", "mean spirit of capitalism"
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 23, 2023:
Other meanings "Espírito de porco" also points to:

1. a negative person, a "downer", a "negative Nelly": "uma pessoa ranzinza, rabugenta e negativa, que só vê o lado sombrio das coisas" (Maria Clara Bingemer, http://mpt.ninja/A9CC ), "Sujo, incompreendido e sozinho. alguns o chamam de energia negativa. Outros, de mau agouro..." ("Espírito de Porco", Diego Velleno), "a pessoa possuída tem sempre uma frase de desmotivação, de constrangimento, de desagrado para proferir na direção do indivíduo em elevado estado de satisfação" (Blog Jojoia, http://mpt.ninja/M9LB ).

2. an instigator: a) "pessoa provocadora, ranzinza, que prejudica os outros" (Dicionário Informal), b) "estado de espírito em que pessoa que age de forma desagradável, irritante, provocadora, sem levar em consideração o sentimento ou a opinião" (Domingos Sávio Zainaghi, "Como Ser Um Palestrante Jurídico," 2ª edição, Editora Mizuno, 2020, http://mpt.ninja/l9K3 ).

Please note: Several websites use definition 2b. Considering the range of meanings, there will be several translations for the term.

PS: I was able to confirm that the expression has indeed biblical origins. This article makes an in-depth analysis: http://mpt.ninja/a9Ve.
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 22, 2023:
Antagonizer Baseado em um artigo que acabei de ler na Wikipédia, penso que "antagonizer" seria outra possibilidade de tradução.

"Para conduzir um porco (animal) sempre temos que fazer o movimento contrário ao que queremos. Por exemplo, se queremos que o porco vá pra frente, basta puxar (sem fazer força) o rabo dele pra trás. Em contrapartida para ele ir pra trás, puxamos a orelha pra frente (também sem aplicar muita força para não ferir o animal). Assim o porco se comporta como um teimoso, fazendo o contrário do que é forçado. O espirito de porco é aquela pessoa que age sempre da maneira contrária ao que deveria, fazendo o inverso sempre." https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Espírito_de_porco

"[Antagonist] actually would be from the same Greek root. Agonist is from the root 'agon,' which is a struggle or competition. An agonizer means 'a struggler.' An antagonizer is one who struggles against something or someone. Same root, just an added prefix." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Samson_Agonistes

Alguma expressão idiomática para "antagonizer"?
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 22, 2023:
@Paulo Obrigado pelo seu feedback. O "evil-minded" que eu mencionei na pergunta aparece como último post em uma discussão no WordReference. Não aparece nenhum comentário (favorável ou desfavorável) depois dele. Como gosto de testar as traduções, testei essa e fiquei surpreso com o resultado. Não me parece ser a tradução correta. Vamos ver se surge alguma outra coisa.
Paulo Melo Feb 22, 2023:
@Oliver Parece ser uma melhor opção do que as sugeridas até agora.
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 22, 2023:
mean-spirited vs. evil-minded evil-minded: having an evil disposition or evil thoughts (M-W). Similar to "evil-spirited" (see previous post).

At this point, I'm leaning towards mean-spirited.

"Espírito de porco" is defined as "someone who likes to "antagonize", "interfere negatively", or "cause problems or embarrassment (in an affair, issue, activity, etc.)" (Aulete, translated from PT).

"Mean-spirited" is defined as follows:

- exhibiting or characterized by meanness of spirit (Merriam-Webster)
- feeling or showing a cruel desire to cause harm or pain (Britannica)
- petty; small-minded; ungenerous (Dictionary.com)
- malicious, small-minded, selfish, inconsiderate etc. (Grammarphobia)
- unkind, motivated by cruelty or intended to be hurtful (YourDicionary.com)
- unkind, not generous or sympathetic (Longman)

Can we infer that a "mean-spirited" person (M-W) usually causes "problems or embarrassment" to others? Or that an "ungenerous, unsympathetic" individual (Longman) has the habit of "antagonizing" or "interfering negatively" in their encounters with other people? I guess so. What do you guys think? Do you see a connection between the two?
Oliver Simões (asker) Feb 22, 2023:
evil-spirited No dictionary definitions were found. The following examples seem to indicate that "evil-spirited" has to do with, as the name implies, evil spirits (literally). The phrase may have a biblical/religious origin.

- Worship of evil spirited deity...
- Are narcissists evil spirited? Is this a spiritual thing?
- ... foul, evil-spirited, sinning sorcerer...
- "I inherited the seeds of these hurtful, evil spirited monsters..."

Matthew 8:30-32 describes two demon-possessed, violent men who confronted Jesus:

"30 Now there was a herd of many pigs feeding at a distance from them. 31 And the demons begged Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of pigs.” 32 And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the pigs; and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters."

"Heron connected the Biblical & Hebrew Scriptures (Bible and Torah, along with the Book of Enoch, which is brief in description in Genesis of the Bible). In the Book of Enoch chapter 10 verses 4-15, it explains how these sources of evil spirited-men were cast into the Abyss (aka "Tartarus," "Hades," "Hell") on earth..." https://amzn.to/3xJiBqf

Proposed translations

1 day 2 hrs
Selected

mean-spirited

A mean-spirited person can either be someone who goes out of their way to cause harm, as well as it can be a person who gives another person bad reviews or remarks to put them down, to make them uncomfortable, and so on.

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2023-02-23 18:13:24 GMT)
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I also found hits on google with mean-spirited philosophy.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q="mean-spi...
Reference:

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/mean%E2%80%93spirited

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mean-spirited

Note from asker:
Thank you. As indicated on the DB, I picked "mean-spirited" as one of the several translations for "espírito de porco". I appreciate the "mean-spirited philosophy" link.
Something went wrong...
1 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Obrigado por confirmar o que eu havia mencionado no DB. É um termo polissêmico, por isso adicionei outras traduções ao glossário. "
3 hrs

brute (n.), obnoxious (adj.)

brute (n.): a cruelly rapacious person
obnoxious é um adj., mas acho que tem o sentido que você busca.
Reference:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/brute

Note from asker:
Obrigado, colega, mas não servem porque (1) não são idiomáticas e (2) o sentido não é o mesmo. Traduzem, resspectivamente, como "bruto" e "detestável".
Something went wrong...
+1
48 mins

evil-minded

:) Prefiro "evil-minded" - está no Collins (definição 1):

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/evil-mi...



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Note added at 51 mins (2023-02-22 15:51:34 GMT)
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1. having an evil disposition or harmful, malicious intentions


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Note added at 54 mins (2023-02-22 15:54:09 GMT)
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E a Claudia Raia disse "... porque vai atormentar a vida de Samantha..." (intenção maliciosa)

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Note added at 1 hr (2023-02-22 16:17:07 GMT)
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O 2. já é outra coisa, para o lado de indecente, vulgarou obsceno

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Note added at 1 hr (2023-02-22 16:23:37 GMT)
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Para coisas não deve nem ter (talvez em HQs)

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Note added at 1 hr (2023-02-22 16:28:29 GMT)
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Fiz uma busca rápida, mas não achei

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Note added at 3 hrs (2023-02-22 18:49:01 GMT)
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Lembro que o evil-minded está no Collins, dispensa procuras (infrutíferas) na internet
Note from asker:
Obrigado. Como você traduziria o exemplo 2 ("espírito de porco da filosofia")? Encontrei vários exemplos com pessoas mas nenhum com coisas: "evil mind of Mengele", "evil mind of a scammer", "evil mind of terrorits" etc.
O fato de estar no Collins não quer dizer que esteja correto. Os dicionários também contêm erros. :-) Leia meus posts no DB e você vai ver que a tradução do Collins não faz muito sentido.
Peer comment(s):
agree Andrew Bramhall
3 hrs
obrigado
Something went wrong...
+2
5 hrs

was a right cow

was a right cow

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Note added at 5 hrs (2023-02-22 20:19:00 GMT)
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or of course, in the same vein in the Kingdom Animalia - a right bitch
or in the corporal lexicon - a right c*nt
Reference:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=right%20cow

Note from asker:
Thank you, Nick. I could not cross-reference "right cow" with "espírito de porco". Nothing came up on Google. The same for "right bitch". I found another translation ("negative Nelly"), which doesn't fit the description.
Peer comment(s):
agree Lara Nunes : I agree with your sentence.
1 day 3 hrs
Thanks Lara. The terminology I used is very "abrangente" for this sort of person, and to be honest the other answers seem rather stilted and quite frankly to a native En speaker sound somewhat "false" but that is just my opinion. :-)
agree Adrian MM. : Otherwise, I agree with your 'Porkenglish' analysis of the other answers.
4 days
Thanks Adrian
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

spoilsport / grinch

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
spoil·sport
/ˈspoilˌspôrt/
noun
a person who behaves in a way that spoils others' pleasure

Thesaurus:
grinch
[ grinch ]
noun
a person or thing that spoils or dampens the pleasure of others.

Something went wrong...
20 hrs

killljoy, stick-in-the-mud

Since espirito de porco means someone who "rains on everyone's parade" I think killjoy or stick-in-the-mind makes sense
Example sentence:

Our next door neighbor is a killjoy who calls the police anytime we have a party at our house.

Cathy is such a stick in the mud . She never wants to try anything new.

Reference:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killjoy

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/stick-in-the-mud

Something went wrong...
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