| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators Autor de la hebra: Enrique Cavalitto
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Rebecca Hendry 
Reino Unido
Local time: 13:19
Miembro 2005
español al inglés
+ ...
I believe that this new feature has potential, and I am willing to try it out. I think it's another useful idea that could help clients find new, good translators as a result of what basically constitutes an outsourcer recommendation. However, I agree with others in that we should be "forewarned" about such changes to our profiles.
My main concern is that sending requests for feedback to my regular clients may become a bit of a nuisance to them, particularly if they are receiving ... See more I believe that this new feature has potential, and I am willing to try it out. I think it's another useful idea that could help clients find new, good translators as a result of what basically constitutes an outsourcer recommendation. However, I agree with others in that we should be "forewarned" about such changes to our profiles.
My main concern is that sending requests for feedback to my regular clients may become a bit of a nuisance to them, particularly if they are receiving countless similar requests from all their regular translators.
Similarly, I am concerned with the "cluttered" feel of the new profile. I think too many things have been crammed into a small space and it may be more benefitial for us to have more tabs at the top of the profile to separate things out, as we have in the old profile format.
That being said, I appreciate the constant improvements that are being made by the site staff. Thanks! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I start to think we are not considered as we should be | Jun 23, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
All we want is the HIDE BUTTON
After all, we are PAYING members, and we have not been asked if we want this feature.
| | | | | True pros don't work for bottom-feeder rates | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
To the professionals who would consider leaving because of feedback, I would ask you to consider that this feature is intended for you, first and foremost. Please think about the possibilities and how you could use this to expand your business and make your work easier. This is intended for you to get the credit, the standing, that you have earned.
Maybe if you're new to the business...but I earned my credit and my standing long before ProZ was established as a web site. This new feature is not intended for me or people like me.
It's intended for those willing to take low-paying jobs to establish themselves, and then to accept feedback from low-paying clients to "look experienced", because those are the only jobs they have ever done, and then to get MORE low-paying jobs. Sure, in between there are some relationships between experienced people and their clients -- but why would an experienced translator waste time and effort soliciting reviews from established, busy agencies for whom they regularly work? Way to annoy your customers!
It's intended for unscrupulous agencies, who can then squeeze prices further because they can simply and effectively blackball those who do not "play along". I would also carefully consider whether the Membership Agreement or whatever it's called has language SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZING the posting of comments pertaining to one's individual reputation. If it doesn't, posting about an individual could be tantamount to libel or slander. Posting about an organization gives a bit more wiggle room. Facilitating posts by organizations about individuals, well, that is not really cricket, now, is it?
And it's intended for advertising purposes to promote the site memberships, which are the main source of income to the owner(s). This last point is not an argument -- the owners, as I have said previously, are free to implement any changes they like in an attempt to maximize revenues from their site. That's the smart thing to do. Please do not pretend, however, that the first and most urgent consideration is always the needs of professional translators. If it were, your business plan would not be viable. After "make money", the wording of the second priority is likely something more along the lines of "design a site offering features that maximize membership by people interested in translation".
Just saying. Doing things like this --opt-out with negative traces left on the page, rather than opt-in -- is no better or less underhanded than all those offers of "introductory prices" which have in super-fine print "And if you don't cancel before July 31, we'll bill your credit card for $X.XX monthly."
| | | | justin C
Estados Unidos
Local time: 08:19
inglés
| Susana: The new profile is going to be linked to throughout the site | Jun 23, 2006 |
Hi Susana,
My understanding is that the new profile will be the one that opens by default, and it is now necessary to follow the link to the old format in order to view it (every single time, is that correct?). I am assuming this means visitors will automatically be directed to the new format (am I mistaken?).
As discussed here ( http://www.proz.com/topic/45409 ), and here ( http://www.proz.com/topic/49978 ), we will be linking to the /profile URL (which is always the new format) throughout the site. The old format will still be available for users who so choose via the /pro URL, in case the /pro URL was given out to clients, outsourcers, or colleagues in the past.
The new profile was showing up for users in the /pro URL for about an hour, due to a bug (which has been fixed).
I hope this explains it. If you have any other questions, please feel free to send me a profile mail.
Best Regards,
Justin
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Susana Galilea
Estados Unidos
Local time: 07:19
inglés al español
+ ...
justin wrote: As discussed here ( http://www.proz.com/topic/45409 ), and here ( http://www.proz.com/topic/49978 ), we will be linking to the /profile URL (which is always the new format) throughout the site. The old format will still be available for users who so choose via the /pro URL, in case the /pro URL was given out to clients, outsourcers, or colleagues in the past. The new profile was showing up for users in the /pro URL for about an hour, due to a bug (which has been fixed).
Thanks, Justin.
Susana
| | | | justin C
Estados Unidos
Local time: 08:19
inglés
| justin C
Estados Unidos
Local time: 08:19
inglés
| *Please post replies concerning the switch the new profile format at http://www.proz.com/topic/49978 | Jun 23, 2006 |
Hello all,
I am respectfully asking for posts regarding the new profile format switch be posted in http://www.proz.com/topic/49978 (which is that thread that concerns the switch).
Best Regards,
Justin
| | | | df49f (X)
Francia
Local time: 14:19
| Ebay for example.... precisely the problem... | Jun 23, 2006 |
Konstantin Kisin wrote:
(...] By definition in such cases, not having feedback is a negative and you'll find that on Ebay for example, people with no feedback or hidden feedback are treated with a certain degree of suspicion.
... and that is precisely the problem/concern for many of us (experienced, recognized and competent professionals with a well-established clientele), who have absolutely no need for this feature for reasons explained very clearly by Terry Thatcher (among other sound reasons given by others) and yet we would end up being the ones penalized for not using it simply because we have no need for it 
I'm not a paying member, so my opinion of course doesn't really count...
df
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| coupla suggestions | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote: Right, Cilian Cilian O'Tuama wrote:
I'd very much welcome the "private record-keeping" function. It sounds very interesting - at least from an outsourcer's perspective - in that it will make it possible to take notes on colleagues for future reference. That will certainly help reduce the number of scraps of paper on my desk. That's the idea exactly. Please let us know if you have any suggestions for improvements when you have used it a bit.
I've since found the feedback function in question (takes a bow). I tested it a few times, each time clicking the option "only for my reference", and not "make it public", which I would probably never use. In fact, I doubt I'd ever use either option (except maybe as another source of amusement).
I'd be more interested in being able to take notes on members we (outsourcers) have NOT yet worked with (not possible here). I already know the others, so there'd be no need for me to enter feedback on their profile pages.
Secondly, I wouldn't need any prompts (e.g. Would you work with him again? yes, maybe no).
I'd much prefer an empty textbox/page attachable to whoever's profile I choose, where I can enter my own notes and that only I can read (50 characters doesn't get you very far). But maybe that's something else in development...?
Just my 2c as one outsourcer.
Sorry Henry, but you asked
C
P.S. It doesn't seem to be possible to edit the feedback once you've entered it (at least not for own refernce only).
| | | | | In this, we are all equals | Jun 24, 2006 |
df49f wrote: Konstantin Kisin wrote:
(...] By definition in such cases, not having feedback is a negative and you'll find that on Ebay for example, people with no feedback or hidden feedback are treated with a certain degree of suspicion.
... and that is precisely the problem/concern for many of us (experienced, recognized and competent professionals with a well-established clientele), who have absolutely no need for this feature for reasons explained very clearly by Terry Thatcher (among other sound reasons given by others) and yet we would end up being the ones penalized for not using it simply because we have no need for it I'm not a paying member, so my opinion of course doesn't really count... df
Paying or non-paying is not the point. Established translators no longer seem to be the target customers of this site. And whatever we say doesn't seem to matter. That's what is so dramatic here. And so very clear.
| | | | | Why not have a quick poll? | Jun 24, 2006 |
Just to help clarify the opt in versus opt out issue, why not hold a quick poll?
Surely we should be able to decide for ourselves what appears on our own profiles!
Next thing, we'll have to wear uniforms. ;-(
| | | | Elena Woontner (X)
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:19
inglés al italiano
+ ...
| No. Not a good idea. | Jun 24, 2006 |
I think the Blue Board is more than enough. This is not an idea I will support.
There are too many screwheads out there who may want to mess with us.
Legally dangerous. Professionally dangerous. Humanly dangerous.
I left another board for the same reason. I won't have unfair or untrue "feedback" sent about me because I left a comment about a non-payer in the Blue Board. Believe me, there are crazy people out there. Many of us know, or have experienced extremely unpleasant sit... See more I think the Blue Board is more than enough. This is not an idea I will support.
There are too many screwheads out there who may want to mess with us.
Legally dangerous. Professionally dangerous. Humanly dangerous.
I left another board for the same reason. I won't have unfair or untrue "feedback" sent about me because I left a comment about a non-payer in the Blue Board. Believe me, there are crazy people out there. Many of us know, or have experienced extremely unpleasant situations.
As a paying member, I reserve the right to opt out. Not all novelty ideas improve or make a website more attractive. This indeed will make it worse.
It's human nature.
[Edited at 2006-06-24 00:52]
[Edited at 2006-06-24 00:53] ▲ Collapse
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| You can opt not to show feedback, Elena | Jun 24, 2006 |
Elena Woontner wrote:
I won't have unfair or untrue "feedback" sent about me...
Once again, I would like to point out that you can control whether or not feedback is shown in your profile. Just opt out and none will be shown.
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I see where ProZ is getting at with this new feature. However, consider this.
An outsourcer/agency judges whether a translator is right for a job on their competences. This is already very easy to verify - we have profiles set up, don't we? We also have resumes that we can send to potential clients, as well as some references we can also send them. Overall, a client will evaluate whether a translator is good enough for them by looking at his/her competences and whether or not they s... See more I see where ProZ is getting at with this new feature. However, consider this.
An outsourcer/agency judges whether a translator is right for a job on their competences. This is already very easy to verify - we have profiles set up, don't we? We also have resumes that we can send to potential clients, as well as some references we can also send them. Overall, a client will evaluate whether a translator is good enough for them by looking at his/her competences and whether or not they send the translation back in time.
A translator will judge whether a client (agency/outsourcer) is good enough for them on the basis of whether they pay or not, and whether they pay late. Then, it's just a question of communication.
Therefore, when picking a translator, what's important is to have PROOF of the competences of a translator. This will never be part of this new feature. No translator in their right mind would ever publicly display their references. Also, as an outsourcer, I would never rely on LWA averages when picking a translator. I would ask for samples of their work and a short test - which is what outsourcers are already doing. Translators, on the other hand, base their decision to work for a client on payment questions. But are there any outsourcers who provide proof of that?
Outsourcers already have the upper hand. What more do they need?
This is all about proof. I will expect the person leaving retaliatory feedback - believe me, they will abound - to prove what they accuse me of. Will ProZ have time to handle that? In exchange, I would also expect that any client wanting to offer me a contract prove to me that they will pay me. Is there any other way to prove this than by paying in advance? Do you know any clients who pay in advance? Will we all have to start leaving each other fake feedbacks to keep our averages up, like outsourcers do? Will we have to take part in this scheme now, instead of just being witnesses like before?
Ever since I've been on ProZ, I've left a dozen feedbacks, all of which were 5s - except for one of them. It was a 1, and if there would have been a possibility, it would have been a 0. I politely stated that the client hasn't paid in 9 months, that she did not answer any form of communication and that I was expecting my $800 this very week. She left a reply, criticizing my work - which, by the way, she didn't criticize for nine months. All of a sudden, after 9 months of silence, I was a bad translator. Then, she said in her reply that I made death threats because she stopped working with me. ???!!!????? She basically attacked my reputation, just to invalidate my feedback! So, if unsolicited feedback can be left in my profile, what do you think this person will do? In the meantime, I had her feedback deleted and left a new one for her, to which she replies with an order: never work with this person! I can't wait to receive her unsolicited retaliation!
I am opting out...
P.S.: About the private info jotting pad thingy, it's scary (read MediaMatrix's post). It would come down to people having files on us when we may not even know that the people - or the files - exist. In Canada, any file about a person should be disclosed to the person the file is about and that person is allowed to modify/amend it. I am not sure if there is not maybe a discrepancy here. I don't want any private files about me on the Internet, especially when I don't know what the file says about me, or that it exists. The internet is a public place and many people can dig up hidden information like this. If someone wants to keep some kind of a record, fine by me, but let's keep the record off the net, can we?
[Edited at 2006-06-24 03:58] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Please keep it constructive, writeaway | Jun 24, 2006 |
writeaway wrote:
Paying or non-paying is not the point. Established translators no longer seem to be the target customers of this site. And whatever we say doesn't seem to matter. That's what is so dramatic here. And so very clear.
Your perspective is too narrow, writeaway, and frankly, a bit impolite (not only to staff, but also to your colleagues.) I'll explain.
As staff members, we must concern ourselves not only with the feedback we receive in forums, but also with the way we see new features being used in practice. Why? Because so few of our members use the forums.
As an example, over 8500 translators logged in to ProZ.com today... but no more than 3% of them commented here in the forums (on any topic, not just this one). Some of the others read the announcement and simply began using the new feature.
Here is the type of feedback we see appearing in member profiles:
- "Very prompt, professional, accurate, reliable"
- "Impeccable quality, meets deadlines"
- "...an outstanding intepreter."
We think comments like these are:
(1) Good for translators (whether "established" or not)
(2) Most likely to be received by translators who already have satisfied clients (ie. those who are established).
I have noticed your tendency to reject new features, writeaway, and this is ok, and it is the reason that we allow you to opt out. What I would ask is that you not turn your opposition into an attack against our staff or against those who appreciate our new features.
That said, I do appreciate your membership, and your continued participation in these discussions.
| | | | | Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
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