Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Testigo de la Marca

English translation:

Witness of the mark [in lieu of signature {US}/instead of signature {UK}]

Added to glossary by Robert Forstag
May 10, 2018 15:58
6 yrs ago
11 viewers *
Spanish term

Testigo de la Marca

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general) Puerto Rican marriage certificate
The term appears on a marriage certificate form below the signature of both the bride and groom. The form itself is rather old (apparently created in 1961). I've not encountered this term before, and I don't see any viable definition in the Kudoz archives. Many thanks.
Proposed translations (English)
4 fingerprint witness

Discussion

Melissa Gonzalez Jun 1, 2018:
I think Taña is right, "witness to signature by mark". The phrase "signature by mark" is already familiar in legal circles, so it seems to make the most sense.
Robert Carter May 10, 2018:
Yes Robert, but actually the word "mark" covers any mark made by a person as their signature, so aside from the fact that it usually isn't a fingerprint, you wouldn't need to specify "fingerprint" anyway.

mark1
NOUN

2A line, figure, or symbol made as an indication or record of something.
‘the first syllable has a stress mark’

2.2 A written symbol made on a document in place of a signature by someone who cannot write.
he signed his mark in the visitor's book

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mark
Robert Forstag (asker) May 10, 2018:
I'm inclined to go with "Witness of mark or fingerprint" (given that the situation referenced seems to be one in which either a fingerprint or an "X" is used instead of a signature by persons unable to sign).
Robert Carter May 10, 2018:
Agree with Taña, absolutely. "Witness of signature mark"?
Robert Forstag (asker) May 10, 2018:
@Taña Probably too long for use on a form with limited space, but it conveys the idea. Thank you. :)
Taña Dalglish May 10, 2018:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_general/48...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase: Testigo de las marcas.
English translation: witness to signature by mark
Does this may sense?
Robert Forstag (asker) May 10, 2018:
Correction re context: The term appears in the space BELOW the space for the signatures of the bride and groom on the form.

Proposed translations

7 mins
Selected

fingerprint witness

It is used when the bride or groom do not sign and just use their fingerprint. There has to be a witness in this case.

From linguee.com:
If signature is signed with a mark, please have a witness sign his or her signature and fill in the date.
Note from asker:
Thank you, Patricia. Your suggestion certainly seems plausible.
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : Why fingerprint rather than mark?
18 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : I have always seen the term 'mark' used
4 hrs
neutral Robert Carter : Mark, not fingerprint. Saludos!
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Yes, “mark” would necessarily include “fingerprint.” But “”Mark witness” really does not work. I also think that “Witness of the mark” sounds a bit strange by itself, and that is why I think the longer bracketed translation that I’ve entered is also an option - provided that there is room for it on the form. Thanks, Patricia - and to everyone else. Thanks to all who responded and commented."

Reference comments

5 mins
Reference:

Previous question

And the answer looks convincing to me.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/Spanish/certificates_diplomas_lice...

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-05-10 17:04:27 GMT)
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Witness to mark.
Note from asker:
Thank you. But the "answer" offered there is a long paraphrase in Spanish.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral AllegroTrans : it doesn’t help that much as there is no definitive 'good' answer
4 hrs
agree Robert Carter : Yes to "witness to mark".
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
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