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NEVER ask the client
Tópico cartaz: Daniel Frisano

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Membro (2014)
dinamarquês para inglês
+ ...
Daft Apr 8

Gerard Barry wrote:

I don't think there's anything daft about suggesting that translators should be reticent about asking questions of the client in case it makes them look incompetent.


I completely agree. That's just not what Daniel said. In case you forgot, he said, 'NEVER ask the client,' which is quite different from what you said. Quite reasonably, people reacted to what he actually said, not something else.

It is indeed daft to work by such an inflexible rule. A professional needs to use their best judgement at all times and decide when to ask and when not. There's nothing professional about writing an inflexible rule and then letting that arbitrary rule overrule common sense.

Gerard Barry wrote:
From where I'm standing, Daniel was treated disrespectfully, if not actually bullied, for what he said.


If you go back and read what Daniel actually wrote, you will see that he was condescending, if not disrespectful, more than once.

[Edited at 2021-04-08 11:55 GMT]


expressisverbis
Rachel Waddington
P.L.F.Persio
Chris S
Mervyn Henderson
Philip Lees
Rui Domingues
 

Rachel Waddington  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 22:00
Membro (2014)
holandês para inglês
+ ...
Bullying Apr 8

Gerard Barry wrote:

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

"You're on my side for a change? What's that supposed to mean?"

That means I've rarely been on your side. Sorry if the language was tricky.

As for Daniel, I think Chris has explained that one already. He said something just about nobody agreed with, and they told him so. End of story.

As for "every waking hour", hardly. I just manage my time appropriately between work, foruming and life, that's all. I write short stories and comments because the mood takes me every once in a while. How much time do you spend getting ready to go to work, travelling to work, at work (where you can't spend your time foruming due to all those fearsome "rules" you hate so much), coming back from work, and moving into home mode again? Quite a bit, right? Well, I have all that time to piss around with.

[Edited at 2021-04-07 17:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-07 17:11 GMT]
#

From where I'm standing, Daniel was treated disrespectfully, if not actually bullied, for what he said. You guys are very cliquish.


Disagreeing with someone isn't disrespectful, even if a lot of people disagree. Countering arguments is discussion, not bullying.

If you start a thread with an outrageous statement like "NEVER ask the client" you can expect a lot of people to disagree.


P.L.F.Persio
Chris S
Thomas T. Frost
Mervyn Henderson
expressisverbis
Matthias Brombach
Philip Lees
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
sueco para inglês
+ ...
Pack mentality Apr 8

Gerard Barry wrote:
You guys are very cliquish.

I like to think we’re still capable of turning on each other at the drop of a hat.

Sometimes it pays to build up a bit of a reputation and a fan base before airing controversial views and slagging everyone off. Human nature, innit?


P.L.F.Persio
Thomas T. Frost
Kevin Fulton
Mervyn Henderson
expressisverbis
Philip Lees
Zibow Retailleau
 

Gerard Barry
Alemanha
Local time: 23:00
alemão para inglês
It's the way you all do it Apr 8

Rachel Waddington wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

"You're on my side for a change? What's that supposed to mean?"

That means I've rarely been on your side. Sorry if the language was tricky.

As for Daniel, I think Chris has explained that one already. He said something just about nobody agreed with, and they told him so. End of story.

As for "every waking hour", hardly. I just manage my time appropriately between work, foruming and life, that's all. I write short stories and comments because the mood takes me every once in a while. How much time do you spend getting ready to go to work, travelling to work, at work (where you can't spend your time foruming due to all those fearsome "rules" you hate so much), coming back from work, and moving into home mode again? Quite a bit, right? Well, I have all that time to piss around with.

[Edited at 2021-04-07 17:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-07 17:11 GMT]
#

From where I'm standing, Daniel was treated disrespectfully, if not actually bullied, for what he said. You guys are very cliquish.


Disagreeing with someone isn't disrespectful, even if a lot of people disagree. Countering arguments is discussion, not bullying.

If you start a thread with an outrageous statement like "NEVER ask the client" you can expect a lot of people to disagree.


It's the way you all do it that made me use the word "bullying". It's always funny to see the same faces, too, agreeing with each other's posts. It does look like kind of a gang mentality (although you yourself are not the worst culprit in that regard).

By the way, saying that a translator should never ask a client questions does not fit most people's definition of "outrageous".


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 17:00
Membro (2003)
espanhol para inglês
+ ...
The beginnings of a maxim... Apr 8

Chris S wrote:

Assuming you’re translating for the people wot wrote it, your job is not to put what they said, or even what they were trying to say, but what they ought to have said, in order to achieve what they wanted to achieve. But there’s still only so much mind-reading you can do.


This seems to be a point worth repeating. The better the quality of the source text, the more obliged the translator is to cleave to its meaning.

The vaguer and sloppier the translation, the more the translator must also act as an editor, inferring the writer's intention - and even sometimes what "they ought to have said."

After all (and obvious exceptions aside), the point of requesting and paying for a translation is to receive an end product that is usable, and not to faithfully reproduce in the target language each and every small mistake and glaring error in the original.

[Edited at 2021-04-08 14:02 GMT]


P.L.F.Persio
Teresa Borges
Philip Lees
Zibow Retailleau
expressisverbis
Thomas T. Frost
Gerard Barry
 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Espanha
Local time: 23:00
espanhol para inglês
+ ...
"It's always funny to see the same faces, too, agreeing with each other's posts." Apr 8

What's even funnier is seeing the same lack of any faces at all agreeing with yours.

expressisverbis
Thomas T. Frost
Matthias Brombach
Teresa Borges
Zibow Retailleau
Angie Garbarino
Philip Lees
 

Gerard Barry
Alemanha
Local time: 23:00
alemão para inglês
And there they are again ... Apr 8

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

What's even funnier is seeing the same lack of any faces at all agreeing with yours.


.... under your post:)


Chris S
Mervyn Henderson
P.L.F.Persio
Matthias Brombach
 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Espanha
Local time: 23:00
espanhol para inglês
+ ...
And there they aren't again ... Apr 8

... under yours.

Come on, Gerard, a child could have seen that one coming. Why be the straight man who just keeps on giving? You should change your way of thinking, outside the box, get alternative, like, man. Have you ever thought of joining those Querdenkers? After all, you're in the right place. There's a soapbox just waiting for you down the Strasse.

Oh look, there's a few faces now. That's what Jana of Kassel had before the security guard chucked it in.

[Edi
... See more
... under yours.

Come on, Gerard, a child could have seen that one coming. Why be the straight man who just keeps on giving? You should change your way of thinking, outside the box, get alternative, like, man. Have you ever thought of joining those Querdenkers? After all, you're in the right place. There's a soapbox just waiting for you down the Strasse.

Oh look, there's a few faces now. That's what Jana of Kassel had before the security guard chucked it in.

[Edited at 2021-04-08 14:39 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-08 14:39 GMT]
Collapse


Chris S
Matthias Brombach
 

Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Alemanha
Local time: 23:00
Membro (2007)
holandês para alemão
+ ...
But doesn't it fit ... Apr 8

Gerard Barry wrote:

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

What's even funnier is seeing the same lack of any faces at all agreeing with yours.


.... under your post:)


... to your view upon the world, being prosecuted all the time by secret forces, Bill Gates, Angela Merkel, the WEF, the asylum seekers, and the Germans, who all unreflectively stick to their rules, as apparently can be seen in their history according to your sources? I'm sure that you have a lot more followers there, where you dare to show your face and your real name, when marching together with your Querdenkers and visiting PEGIDA events or AfD gatherings.


Mervyn Henderson
P.L.F.Persio
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
sueco para inglês
+ ...
Lol Apr 8

Robert Forstag wrote:
The beginnings of a maxim

You’d think such a magician would have a better way with words.


Gerard Barry wrote:
Same faces

Gerard, I know what you mean, but sometimes lots of agrees simply mean that lots of people agree. Don’t go getting paranoid.

Have you read Holes? I’m not sure how it’s relevant, except that it’s a great book and it would be a better use of your time than digging yourself any more.


Teresa Borges
expressisverbis
P.L.F.Persio
Matthias Brombach
Mervyn Henderson
Zibow Retailleau
Rachel Waddington
 

Gerard Barry
Alemanha
Local time: 23:00
alemão para inglês
Querdenker, Jana from Kassel, bullying Apr 8

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

... under yours.

Come on, Gerard, a child could have seen that one coming. Why be the straight man who just keeps on giving? You should change your way of thinking, outside the box, get alternative, like, man. Have you ever thought of joining those Querdenkers? After all, you're in the right place. There's a soapbox just waiting for you down the Strasse.

Oh look, there's a few faces now. That's what Jana of Kassel had before the security guard chucked it in.

[Edited at 2021-04-08 14:39 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-08 14:39 GMT]


I've already been on Querdenken demonstrations. They're great fun!

Leave Jana from Kassel alone. You and others might think it's funny to keep mentioning her but the way that girl's words were taken out of context and the way the media turned her into an object of hate is quite shocking and constitutes - I have to say - bullying.


 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Espanha
Local time: 23:00
espanhol para inglês
+ ...
Jana Apr 8

But I did leave her alone. Alone on that stage. So did the crowd, by the looks of things. The security guard left her alone. In the end she even left herself alone, too, and walked off in a huff.

Now, what would Sophie have done? Sophie wasn't given the chance to either stand up on a stage or go off in a huff, as I remember it. Do you see the difference? It takes a bit of querdenking, but you'll get there in the end.


Matthias Brombach
P.L.F.Persio
 

Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Itália
Local time: 23:00
Membro (2008)
inglês para italiano
+ ...
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO
I open the forum page after one week and THIS is what I find? Apr 8

Grown people arguing like little kids? Come on, let's get our acts together. I don't even want to know what happened in the previous pages. More fits thrown, presumably.

Meanwhile I had yet another client venting about their other translator bothering them with silly questions and how rare it is to find someone who just gets the job done. Sigh.

Leave clients alone. Don't waste their time. Allow them to take care of existing end clients, and perhaps find new ones, withou
... See more
Grown people arguing like little kids? Come on, let's get our acts together. I don't even want to know what happened in the previous pages. More fits thrown, presumably.

Meanwhile I had yet another client venting about their other translator bothering them with silly questions and how rare it is to find someone who just gets the job done. Sigh.

Leave clients alone. Don't waste their time. Allow them to take care of existing end clients, and perhaps find new ones, without headaches from their providers.
Collapse


Gerard Barry
 

expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 22:00
Membro (2015)
inglês para português
+ ...
I wish I could understand it... Apr 8

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Leave clients alone. Don't waste their time. Allow them to take care of existing end clients, and perhaps find new ones, without headaches from their providers.


Perhaps you are directing this 'advice' to those people who think that anyone can translate and who came into the world of translation without having any knowledge of it.
No wonder that since last year (since I became more regular on the forums) so many people have been asking how to start being a translator.
Almost every week I read new threads about how to get into the business.
And the worst thing is that they do not make any efforts to look for information here or elsewhere.
I wonder if the frustration you mentioned before, and your statements have something to do with this?
I am asking this, because I am sure that we do not fit that description of inexperienced translators or 'clueless inepts', as you said at the beginning.


Thomas T. Frost
P.L.F.Persio
Zibow Retailleau
Chris S
Baran Keki
Teresa Borges
Sadek_A
 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Espanha
Local time: 23:00
espanhol para inglês
+ ...
Shh. Apr 8

Sir's back in the classroom.

P.L.F.Persio
expressisverbis
Chris S
Baran Keki
Kay Denney
 
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